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Topic: Making legal history
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Making legal history by Steed
Date: 07/07/2007 Time: 09:01:43
Can somebody with more legal knowledge than yours truly please explain this to me.

According to what I see in the SNJ,a bloke in Stroud has been ordered to "pay back" 6,500 pounds for his illicit profits from cannabis. But he was never charged with actually selling the stuff, only possessing it.

So how can you be punished for an act which you have never been formally accuse and charged with?

Or is the judge setting a new precedent?

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Dr Greenthumb
Date: 07/07/2007 Time: 13:09:18
If i was that man i would not pay a god damn penny.

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Steed
Date: 07/07/2007 Time: 13:40:34
Absolutely correct Doctor!

I understand the judge him/herself may not exactly be poised over their keyboard to justify their decision here to the taxpayer. But surely there must be someone who can explain how you can condemn a person to repay illicit profits if you've never accused them of selling in the first place.

How can you make any profit, illicit or not, if you never sell?

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Sinnikal
Date: 07/07/2007 Time: 13:52:43
http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Recovery_of_cash_in_summary_proceedings

This may shed some light Steed.

I can't really make too much sense of it but it certainly appears that to grab the money only a 'preponderance of the evidence' rather than 'beyond reasonable doubt' is the standard required.

Not sure if this gets us any further on this particular case.

It certainly seems that the onus is on the defendant to 'prove' the money was gained lawfully.

Innocent until proven guilty? No longer it seems.

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Steed
Date: 07/07/2007 Time: 14:05:07
Nice footwork Sinnikal?

A dummy like me still can't get it though. This is the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, ok. Fine. But this assumes that the defendant has proceeds which are demostrable ie money under the mattress, in a Swiss bank account etc. And if you've never accused the guy of selling in the first place, then you've relinquished your right to say that the money under the mattress is illegally obtained.

Second point... so if a lot of people are making money selling cannabis, doesn't that show the government is losing a lot of income on a taxable commodity?

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Auntie Ermintrude
Date: 07/07/2007 Time: 16:09:59
Oooh dear. I've just thought if the police find my bottles of parsnip wine I made last year.

I could be made to pay all my life savings if the judge thought I'd been selling it off to all the other girls. And they wouldn't even need to even charge me with selling it, they could just take all I have.

I'm all a-tremble.

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by C***********
Date: 07/07/2007 Time: 16:59:22
Breaking news..Police have swooped on the cottage of 92 year old Miss Ermintrude Tractor and her sister Chelsea. Several bottles of illegal moonshine alcohol have been confiscated, defusing a serious threat to the community.

The culprits will of course be made to pay back every single penny they've made selling the bootleg liquor, but to speed things up they will not actually be formally charged with selling it.

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Steed
Date: 08/07/2007 Time: 13:02:28
So, assuming that the SNJ story is correctly reported, and also assuming that the judge in this case is merely following the law and not simply having a bad day, the implications of this are basically horrifying.

We all have illegal things in our house like Auntie E's parsnip wine. Our old cassttes or new DVDs copied from others... more than 2 photocopies of the same book... carving knives... spears or swords from around the world as decoration, and so on. So now every one of us can be ordered to pay substantial amounts in "payback" on the grounds that we've been selling these things too.

WITHOUT ANY FORMAL CHARGES!

What is happening to good old British common sense and justice?

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Dani
Date: 08/07/2007 Time: 14:29:35
Steed,

I would say they are following the ways of their younger relative

America.

Keep a lawyer on retainer is our motto !

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Steed
Date: 09/07/2007 Time: 06:43:32
Dani, I had to laugh when Cherie Blair criticised George Bush as not being properly elected because he didn't have the overall majority (remember Florida, Pat Buchanan etc back in 2000?)

Since when has a British government had more than 45% of the overall vote?

>> Tagged as: News - Local


Making legal history by Steed
Date: 27/12/2007 Time: 17:06:46
Come to think of it, when has a Pope ever been elected with an overall majority of votes of members of the Catholic shurch? Including women of course in the election ?

" Take out the plank in your eye before you start criticising others about the speck in theirs", Mrs Blair !

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