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Topic: Strange Rituals in the Fields
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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Nailsworth Eye
Date: 17/11/2007 Time: 10:37:22
An elderly relative has taken many 'crystals' looking rather like a few grains of granulated sugar to me. The last lot were supposed to be 'silicone', but she says she feels no benefit but keeps on going back to the homoeopath. Why,I cannot work it out except that her GP is probably tired of her and recommended them whilst at the same time distancing himself from them. Goodness knows what it all costs too.

Innocently she refers to them as the 'HomeApathy people'!

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Not Required
Date: 18/11/2007 Time: 17:28:52
Yep that's them.

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Not Required
Date: 19/11/2007 Time: 10:38:46
What complete and utter nonsense!

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Infidel
Date: 19/11/2007 Time: 21:16:14
I use 'double blind trial' to mean replicatable in specific controlled conditions, neccessarily limited and hence lacking.

Another drug has been withdrawn due to previously under-acknowledged 'side-effects', 'woo'

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Mosey Dare
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 17:59:55
What does 'woo' actually mean?

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Carey Hunt
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 18:25:50
'woo' doesn't actually mean anything, Mosey. It's a generic term, used in a slightly derogatory sense, for anything that smacks of supernatural or 'new age'/'alternative' ideas. It's what we used to call 'mumbo-jumbo'

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Sinnikal
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 18:27:09
It's a contraction of 'woo-woo' that us 'rationalists' or 'naturalists' use whenever we wish to disparage irrational beliefs, esp. those concerned with aspects of the supernatural.

Typical 'woo' beliefs are things like crystal therapy, anything invoking mystical 'energies' or using the word 'quantum' in any context other than sub-atomic particle behaviour. Of course, homeopathy comes into this area.

See the 'Woo-woo' credo

http://www.watchingyou.com/woowoo.html

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Infidel
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 18:59:37
Can be used to dismiss things we don't understand or don't want to.

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Sinnikal
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 19:01:19
For a demonstration of how bat-sh1t crazy these homeopaths are, take a look at this homeopathy discussion board about the tragic death of a little girl in Australia.

http://www.hpathy.com/homeopathyforums/forum_posts.asp?TID=6923

No, homeopathy itself didn't kill this girl, but antipathy to 'allopathic' medicine sure did.

That's because when it comes to 'real' disease, homeopathy, and all the other nonsense, has nothing to offer, not even side-effects.

Just read through their frightening discussion and see if you come to the same conclusion as me. It reads like a surreal game of 'Mornington Crescent'.

Placebo treatment should be left in the hands of those who understand it, and as it is basically lying to the patient, is ethically dubious anyway.

Which is why evidence-based medicine is very wary of it. It can lead to tragic consequences. Through ignorance

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Infidel
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 19:08:05
' Woo . . . anything that smacks of supernatural '

'super' - 'natural', not (yet) understood to have natural cause and effect.

'or 'new age'/'alternative' ideas. '

'new' and 'alternative' ideas help us to address our ignorance and increase our understanding. Climate Change is directly due to the 'old' or 'conventional' ways of doing things and its given us lots of problems.

'It's what we used to call 'mumbo-jumbo'

An expression of ignorance.

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Infidel
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 19:18:44
I quite quickly spotted this comment, Sinnikal:

'..Not enough history on this child via this article blaming homeopathy.'

Agenda surfing, Sinnikal, and you know it ! Seek and yea shall find on the WWW. Proves nothing.

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Sinnikal
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 19:39:16
No Infidel, you're wrong. 'Woo' is the expression of ignorance.

Climate Change is due to ignorant use of scientific knowledge, and denial of the warnings given by science of the wanton use of the technologies made possible by greater understanding of the 'natural' world.

Knowledge, of itself isn't dangerous, ignorant application of it certainly can be.

Invocation of 'the supernatural' is a device used by those who don't understand a given phenomenon but want to pretend they do. Science isn't afraid to say 'we don't know' but is constantly working on knowing. It makes mistakes, but is self-correcting.

'Woo' is the sort of thing that isn't happy to accept that UFO's are exactly that, UNIDENTIFIED, but has to put some speculative 'spin' on it.

And Infidel, please do some research into what 'double-blind' really means. Try checking out 'Randomised Controlled Trial', it's the same thing but you may get better search results

Off out now to prepare for that strange ritual known as 'Thanksgiving'.

Happy Holidays everyone

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Carey Hunt
Date: 21/11/2007 Time: 22:01:56

Quotation:
'It's what we used to call 'mumbo-jumbo'

An expression of ignorance.


Infidel, you misunderstood me. I was trying to explain the meaning of the expression 'woo' to a poster who hadn't come across the term. I compared the term to the old-fashioned phrase 'mumbo-jumbo'as being close in meaning and usage.

I wasn't referring to the beliefs as such.

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Sinnikal
Date: 22/11/2007 Time: 18:42:21
As a couple of posters have managed to effectively block my criticisms of religious 'faith' (which IMO is the greatest problem with it), I will continue my onslaught against the menace of homeopathic 'faith'.

A few days ago I provided a link to an article by 'Saint' Ben Goldacre, rubbishing the nonsense that is homeopathy.

Well, it's certainly stirred up some spirited, if delusional, defenders of this particular faith.

There is now an article by one Denis MacEoin, attacking Dr. Goldacres impeccable essay. Apart from being totally scientifically illiterate (his qualification is in Islamic Studies) he also omits to mention that:

a) His wife is a homeopath

b) He has written articles for the Society of Homeopaths' journal

c) He was vice chair of an organisation called Friends of Homeopathy

d) He was involved with a charity called the Natural Medicine Society (apparently it went bust in 2003)

So obviously there is no possible agenda.

For anyone open-minded enough to be interested in the debunking of flim-flam, this polemic by Mr MacEoin is worth reading, mainly for the sane, rational and ultimately devastating comments posted after the article by reasonable, sensible and logical people whose only interest is to protect the gullible and credulous from themselves.

Enjoy

http://tinyurl.com/2au6c9

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Strange Rituals in the Fields by Infidel
Date: 22/11/2007 Time: 19:51:39
Last first:

Sinnikal: '. . . So obviously there is no possible agenda.'

But, some knowledge of the subject

'. . . reasonable, sensible and logical people '

Mmm...

'whose only interest is '

MMM...

to protect the gullible and credulous from themselves.'

As if you could, how arrogant is that ?

Infidel:

'An expression of ignorance.'

A (too) simple phrase with many interpretations. I must try to avoid that as it can provoke (assumptions of) prejudice. To explain (my twisted mind): 'mumbo-jumbo', I think, was a misunderstanding of the language of those we colonised, subsequently coined to mean incoherent but hijacked to mean invalid rather than misunderstood. To use the phrase 'mumbo-jumbo', or 'woo', indicates lack of understanding (ignorance) of the subject. That's fine, science works from ignorance. But, science doesn't work by restricting the boundaries of investigation (ignoring) too much. Labelling something 'mumbo-jumbo' or 'woo' does not invalidate it, but that attitude can restrict our understanding.

'Randomised Controlled Trial'

Missed the 'zee'

I know all this: double-blind means that neither the patient nor the researcher knows who gets the wonder-drug and who gets nowt. 1. complex organisms (us) are not simplistic on-off machines which can be given a squirt of (scientific) magic-juice when we mis-fire, to completely cure; 2. these highly-focussed clinical trials release new compounds with little-understood side-effects, odd.

'Science . . . makes mistakes, but is self-correcting.'

Some gain, but some cost ?

'That's because when it comes to 'real' disease, homeopathy, and all the other nonsense, has nothing to offer, not even side-effects.'

It has no effect. Its non-effect encorages people to use it and not use 'conventional' treatment. There is some gain (whether attributable to clear cause and effect or not) and some cost.

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