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Charlie Hebdo by Anonymous Coward
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 15:49:19
Given today's atrocity in Paris, isn't it time that the moderate leaders of the overwhelming majority of peace-loving Muslims came out with an unmistakable condemnation of these actions? A condemnation that doesn't include references to 'provocation', 'offensiveness' or 'respect for our religion'?

There is absolutely NO moral equivalence between cartoonery and butchery.

Sincerest condolences to the family and friends of those who have been mercilessly shot down today.

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Charlie Hebdo by Anonymous Coward
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 16:03:44
Can't people just fight back with satire?

The whole point of satire is that it deals with important issues...there's no point in crying about freedom of speech at the first appearance of bloodshed.

A lot of Muslims have died in the Middle East due to the west.

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Charlie Hebdo by Anonymous Coward
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 16:13:09
A lot more Muslims have died at the hands of Muslim extremists in the Middle East than the West could ever hope to.

I guess today's outrage could be put down to boredom with just killing other Muslims.

tldr version: I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

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Charlie Hebdo by Professor Yaffle
Posts by this user 43
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 17:21:59

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Rather good opinion piece from Roy Greenslade ... in Teh Grauniad, of course.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jan/07/free-speech-must-not-be-silenced-in-the-wake-of-charlie-hebdo-attack

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Charlie Hebdo by Mud
Posts by this user 125
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 19:11:14

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But how free, really, is the press?

Manufacturing Consent is a good book that addresses this question. It is about the US media, but a lot of it applies to the rest of the world.


Quotation:
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a 1988 non-fiction book co-written by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky, wherein the authors argue that the mass media of the United States "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and without overt coercion"

Editorial bias: five filters

Herman and Chomsky's "propaganda model" describes five editorially distorting filters applied to news reporting in mass media:

Size, Ownership, and Profit Orientation: The dominant mass-media outlets are large firms which are run for profit. Therefore they must cater to the financial interest of their owners - often corporations or particular controlling investors. The size of the firms is a necessary consequence of the capital requirements for the technology to reach a mass audience.

The Advertising License to Do Business: Since the majority of the revenue of major media outlets derives from advertising (not from sales or subscriptions), advertisers have acquired a "de facto licensing authority". Media outlets are not commercially viable without the support of advertisers. News media must therefore cater to the political prejudices and economic desires of their advertisers. This has weakened the working class press, for example, and also helps explain the attrition in the number of newspapers.

Sourcing Mass Media News: Herman and Chomsky argue that “the large bureaucracies of the powerful subsidize the mass media, and gain special access [to the news], by their contribution to reducing the media’s costs of acquiring [...] and producing, news. The large entities that provide this subsidy become 'routine' news sources and have privileged access to the gates. Non-routine sources must struggle for access, and may be ignored by the arbitrary decision of the gatekeepers.”

Flak and the Enforcers: "Flak" refers to negative responses to a media statement or program (e.g. letters, complaints, lawsuits, or legislative actions). Flak can be expensive to the media, either due to loss of advertising revenue, or due to the costs of legal defense or defense of the media outlet's public image. Flak can be organized by powerful, private influence groups (e.g. think tanks). The prospect of eliciting flak can be a deterrent to the reporting of certain kinds of facts or opinions.

Anti-Communism: This was included as a filter in the original 1988 edition of the book, but Chomsky argues that since the end of the Cold War (1945–91), anticommunism was replaced by the "War on Terror", as the major social control mechanism.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

A lot of people died during the Middle East wars, while the press is bound and gagged. How important is it to have cartoons with Mohammed with his arse in the air, in that context?

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Charlie Hebdo by Anonymous Coward
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 19:41:22
Yeah, I've read the book. Standard Chomsky fare.

Now tell me, how much manufactured consent did Charlie Hebdo fit into their pi@@-taking?

There'll be calls to be respectful of the religion and to understand why so many people are hurt by a f***ing cartoon. There always is. What we need is the opposite. Prominent Muslims saying that THEY respect the freedom of the press and the freedom of magazines like Charlie Hebdo to poke fun at any and all religions and their prophets.

Until that point they will be complicit.

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Charlie Hebdo by Mud
Posts by this user 125
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 20:06:09

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Quotation:
Now tell me, how much manufactured consent did Charlie Hebdo fit into their pi@@-taking?

well they legitimise the idea that the press is free. Offending Muslims makes the frees look really free.

Now some of them are dead they play into the idea of the deadly threat to western civilization, of these foreigners. So now governments have a bit more excuse to reduce real freedoms.

*shrug*

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Charlie Hebdo by Anonymous Coward
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 21:47:02
Wow. Just wow.

Three men, explicitly acting in the name of their religion ... witnessed by the shouts of "Allahu Akhbar" and "Our Prophet Muhammad has been avenged" ... and it's the fault of the West. Or some machiavellian machinations by some murky cabal of some dark powers.

You seriously don't see religious belief as the prime motivator here?

My word, you'll be regaling us with tales of chemtrails and HAARP next.

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Charlie Hebdo by Mud
Posts by this user 125
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 22:12:08

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Quotation:
You seriously don't see religious belief as the prime motivator here?

sure, religious extremist. You get extremists in a lot of groups.

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Charlie Hebdo by Anonymous Coward
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 22:24:19
I know it's overly theologically simplistic to quote bits of the Koran in isolation but there seems to be plenty in Islamic scripture for the likes of ISIS and these f***ers to base their murderous version of Islam on.

The same goes for the Christian nutjobs who find scripture to justify killing doctors who perform terminations ... Hindu nationalism ... I could go on.

It's NOT extremism that is the problem, it's the special treatment that ALL religions claim for themselves.

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Charlie Hebdo by Mud
Posts by this user 125
Date: 07/01/2015 Time: 22:48:03

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well it's not just religion. Look at the IRA, and ETA for example.

Extreme political actions.

People who invest a lot of their life, and thinking in a belief system, sometimes are prepared to commit extreme acts. This makes them extremists, in their acts anyway.

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Charlie Hebdo by Anonymous Coward
Date: 08/01/2015 Time: 02:07:01
Yebbut ... the IRA and ETA are, as you rightly point out, political organisations, not given any special dispensation.

Religions, however ..., they f***ing demand respect.

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Charlie Hebdo by Anonymous Coward
Date: 08/01/2015 Time: 03:00:13
Extremism is only possible when people dare not laugh at extremism.

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Charlie Hebdo by Mud
Posts by this user 125
Date: 08/01/2015 Time: 10:50:18

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we should laugh at laissez-faire capitalism then.

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Charlie Hebdo by rgshl
Posts by this user 15
Date: 09/01/2015 Time: 12:51:56

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So what's our response then ? Capitulate and have no further p**s taking out of any religion in the press - or retaliate and have the collective Western Press repeatedly feature the most blasphemous cartoons imaginable on the front page for say a year ?

Having absolutely no respect for ANY organised religion I prefer the latter.

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